稳压阀为何能适应低温环境 - 装备天下 - 8264户外手机版

本帖最后由 恩格斯那兔 于 2023-7-23 00:57 编辑

以前看过几个老帖讨论稳压阀，但是到现在这个论坛都快凉透了，也没看到有人来清楚地解释这个问题。

tldr: 能适应低温环境，是因为有了稳压阀就可以将喷孔（edit: 实际上是进气孔）做大，这样气罐内压力低的时候会有更多的气喷出来。

以下内容来自 Adventures In Stoving:

What is a regulator valve, and how can it help? There are several layers here, so bear with me. It should make sense in the end.

First, a regulator valve has a pressure regulator built into it. This pressure regulator can insure that no more than a certain flow of gas is fed to the burner at a time.

Uh, Jim, that's great, but I thought you said the problem was not enough gas. Now, you're talking about a device that prEVENTs too much gas.

Well, yes, and here's the issue: A stove has to be able to operate safely in hot weather as well as cold. If the stove designer "opens up" a stove too much in terms of gas flow, then there could be a disaster in the offing.

Here's what I mean: It's a hot day. Your canister pressure is at an all time high. You open up your valve all the way without really thinking about it. The gas rushes through with such force that the flame lifts off the burner and is pushed out and away from where the gas is coming from. If pushed far enough, the flame will go out even though there was no interruption to the flow of gas.

Now, let's think about this. We've got a red hot stove, and the flame is out. We've got volumes of highly flammable petroleum gas rushing out of the tank. Say, do you think that having a highly flammable, potentially explosive gas rushing toward red hot metal could be a problem? This could go bad very quickly. I think you get my drift here.

If a stove designer opens up a stove too much, he or she risks putting someone into the burn ward of the hospital unless... unless there's a pressure regulator present of course. Now, with a pressure regulator, the stove designer can "open up" the flow all he or she likes without worrying about exceeding a maximum safe amount. If the canister pressure gets too high, the regulator steps in and inhibits the pressure. In cold weather, our "opened up" stove lets plenty of gas through, and we can cook even when the canister pressure is fairly low.

Take a look at the photo below. On the left is the jet of a regulator valved stove, a soto WindMaster

(perhaps the highest quality upright canister stove on the market today). On the right is the jet of a non-regulator valved stove from Primus. You can see even with the naked eye that the aperture of the jet on the left is quite a bit larger. Measurements reveal that the regulator valved stove has a jet size of 0.4 mm. The non-regulator valved stove has a jet size of 0.23 mm. (It's a bit confusing because the jet on the right is stamped "32" which may be a part number, but the size is 0.23 mm.)

If we calculate the cross sectional area of each jet, we find that the regulated jet's area is more than triple that of the non-regulated jet. You can get a lot more gas through that larger opening.
A regulator valved stove, left (a Soto WindMaster). A non-regulator valved stove on the right.
The regulator valved stove has a jet size of 0.4 mm. The non-regulator valved stove has a jet size of 0.23 mm.

A non regulator valved stove can't be opened up like this; it just isn't safe. The designer has to build a non regulated stove such that it is safe at maximum canister pressure; there is no inhibiting regulator. He or she has to "choke" the stove, and cannot allow it to be opened up. When cold weather comes, a non-regulator valved stove doesn't have the capability to let enough gas through, and performance falls off quickly.

A regulator valved stove can be built such that the stove can operate at near 100% flame when there is, say, only 15% of maximum pressure available. On the other hand, a non-regulator valved stove operated at 15% of maximum pressure will have a flame that is about 15% of maximum. Being able to have a 100% flame at, say, 15% pressure is the true advantage of a regulator valved stove in cold weather. Note that I'm using "15%" here. This number is meant to be illustrative more than it is meant to be exact. Each stove's design will be different.

本帖最后由 恩格斯那兔 于 2023-7-23 01:10 编辑

感谢你的分享，原来进气是影响因素。稳压阀的进气孔可以做的更大，如果是进气量瓶颈的时候，后面的喷孔大小不会造成区别，而如果是有进气量有没到瓶颈的时候，后面的喷孔可以设计的更大，而喷孔的大小又被后面设计的功率限制。原文只看到喷孔，但喷孔不是实际上的因素。我去看看汽化效率。

本帖最后由 cbtk 于 2023-7-22 14:51 编辑

稳压阀原理，说明书上的结构已经能看的很明白，稳压阀就是在进气结构上做了文章，罐体汽化好（压力高）就调小炉进气口，汽化不好（压力低）则调整大进气口来增加进气量，这种方式仅对于低温有一点的辅助作用，且适应范围也不大。前提必须是气温没有低到完全不能汽化或汽化量仍能达到正常燃烧范围。而且已知罐阀尺寸是限定的，炉的进气口超过它则没有意义,气炉真要解决低温问题还是得靠预热系统，本质上就是解决汽化问题。
再来说普通炉头（无稳压阀），这类炉头是因为设计的进气可调量程比较窄，换个角度来说，有了稳压阀这种二次被动调节的功能结构，进气孔可以设计的更大更接近极限。
不考虑其它因素，实际能达到功率越大的就是火力越大，火力大和烧水速度正相关；只是你的这个不考虑其它因素的前提就已经有问题了。
ps:有稳压阀的炉头现在很多，也有把功率做的比较低的，它们的喷孔就可以设计的更小。而汽化效率信息量比较大，有兴趣可以翻一下坛子里关于异丁烷和丙烷的相关贴。

本帖最后由 恩格斯那兔 于 2023-7-22 23:24 编辑

我看原文的观点确实是其他因素不变喷孔在安全范围内越大就能更好适应低温。

所以你实际上的观点是稳压阀不是决定喷孔做大的唯一因素，我觉得没错。但是我没明白，其他因素不变，功率大的会比功率小的在低温环境烧水快吗？

我觉得说明书上的原理图只能作为原理说明不能作为实际尺寸对比参考。

另外，送佛送到西天，补充一条关于实验的严谨性。他们忘了最重要的一条数据，soto windmaster的设计功率是3260w. Primes那个阀我不太确实是哪款上的，但我手上的Primes分体炉的设计功率是2000W.

“因为有了稳压阀就可以将喷孔做大”，这是论据。你要证明的是因为出气孔（喷孔）做大了才是解决低温的关键。后者才是你的观点（论点）。
而我说的是，能将出气孔做大，稳压阀不是必然的因素。气孔在合理设计范围内的大小是和后端的设计相关更大，最终的结果大部分体现在功率大小。
为了让你更好的理解，我按你的逻辑来推一下，更大的出气孔就能更适应低温，那我带功率超大的炉头就行了。因为它的出气孔一定非常大。。。。如果你还不能理解，那本贴我的回复也就到此为止了。

我看原文的观点是“因为有了稳压阀就可以将喷孔做大”，而不是“有稳压阀的喷孔一定比没有的大”，原文都是在控制变量的语境下进行论证的呀，是什么让你产生了误解？你可以指出原文的图并不能严格证实原文的观点，但是你说我们“都是错的理解”，我希望能看到你的论据来证明你的观点。

我觉得这帖里没有看不懂稳压结构的人，作用原文里讲的已经很清楚了，不知道为什么你非要提这个。

本帖最后由 windsing 于 2023-7-22 10:06 编辑

顺便可以讨论下，有稳压阀的结构，炉的进气孔要做大才是必然的。因为它要解决的是前端气罐因压力不足，造成汽化效率低导致的罐体出气偏少的情况。已经汽化成功进入炉腔的气，马上要去预混时，此时的出气量则和后端设计相关更多。
一个基本原理你可以通过查看各种不同炉的调节阀原理图得知，不管是哪种结构的阀，调节的都是进气孔大小，出气孔大小则是固定的，而这点你在说明书上也能窥见。

本帖最后由 windsing 于 2023-7-22 10:03 编辑

我来总结下，你带来的观点是，出气孔做大和稳压阀存在必然联系，进而证明出气孔大是能适应低温环境的原因，最后总结稳压阀是因此能适应低温环境。  如果这中间没有必然联系，论据是支撑不了论点的。
而我只是指出，这中间没有必然性，最后的出气孔大小和很多因素有关，不能简单拿两个炉头的拆解（拆解的还不完全）就得出结论。
要你看说明书，是因为说明书上已经有稳压阀的结构和原理，如果看不明白可以翻老贴。

你的观点是阀后喷孔大小和有无稳压阀完全无关。也就是说，当其他因素不变时，无稳压阀的喷孔反而可以比有的时候开得更大，并且当节流阀全开时不会造成安全隐患。可否请你拿出论据来详细证明一下你的观点？

我有od1r的日版说明书，上面并没有与这个问题相关的说明。